Proverbs 31 woman

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Cassy: Welcome back, Mayhem Makers.

This is Cassandra Barbato, your host. And Amber Jenks, your co-host. We are very excited because we are gonna be finishing our first full season. Eight episodes. And then we're gonna take a break, and we're gonna be prepping for the next season.

Today we're gonna talk about the Proverbs 31 woman, and we're gonna dive into what, what is biblical womanhood, you know? Fitting conclusion- Yeah ...

Amber: considering our theme

Cassy: ultimately, we're elevating the woman back to her rightful position alongside the man, we want to make sure that everybody that is [00:01:00] in Christ, the, the entirety of the church, understands that they have the right to respond to any gift or calling that the Lord is trying to pull them into.

So before we get into the whole passage, we're gonna read the, the whole Proverbs 31. It's actually a poem, very cool stuff. But before we get into that, I wanna k- just kinda explore a little bit about some of the presentations of biblical womanhood according to how we were raised.

I wasn't raised in the church, so I didn't really have, biblical womanhood as part of my training or my upbringing. My parents, they just basically kinda duked it out for who was gonna take over what responsibility, you know? Not physically. Right. You get what I'm saying, right?

And then, I didn't have, you know, extended family even that was trying to model some version of, of line of authority or anything like that. So the, the biblical womanhood as far as the man being in charge and the woman being [00:02:00] subordinate did not get introduced to me until I was in my teens,, It didn't resonate with me, I think, as, as much as it would have i- I had been raised in it, , i know that you actually were raised in the church, and so you have a, a little bit of a different upbringing in what that looked like.

Amber: Oh, for sure. I mean, as early as I can remember,, going to Sunday school and anything as just a child, it was taught that the woman's position was to grow up to be an aide to her husband, to be submissive to her husband, to basically bend and, and bow, and whatever he needs, make it better, right?

I mean, I even remember, like, in high school age, in youth group, in the purity culture that really boomed at that time. I think there was even a campaign called True Love Waits, and you get the purity ring, and you promise, it was a covenant to God, but it was impressed upon that you were, as a woman, saving yourself for the husband that you were training to be with.

Like, your [00:03:00] whole upbringing was this practice and, trying to become the woman that he needs, not finding your own identity in Christ-

Cassy: Right ...

Amber: but preparing to be his wife.. I know the church I went, attended, we did a whole weekend. It was a whole discipleship training weekend. We had sweatshirts made.

Cassy: Oh, wow.

Amber: It was... Yes. They were bright red, these like Hanes sweatshirts that had True Love Waits on them. And, the boys went and stayed in a host house.

It was- Mm ... you know, some family in the church, and they did a little overnight stay, and they went through different scriptures and looking at how they're supposed to, you know, preserve their heart and make that commitment to God. But at the girls' house, it was presented as, "You're gonna make the commitment to God, but you really wanna stay pure for your husband because he deserves a pure wife, and if you're not pure, you're not gonna marry the man that you're intended to marry."

Cassy: Interesting. Mm-hmm. I think I had a ring at some point. 

Amber: I- I still have mine. I bought it in Mexico. Oh, you do? On a mission trip. Oh, wow. Okay. Mine's in... It was like eight bucks, but it's silver. I did a Mexico mission trip, [00:04:00] too.

Cassy: I think your, what you were talking about with your in-laws,

Amber: Oh, yeah.

I brought a child into the relationship, and I had been working, and they even encouraged me to get a job and, and to n- not be a mooch.

And then once we got married and I got pregnant with my son, I had to take a step back. I have some, some health challenges that required me to not work. So they stepped in, and they were very supportive, and they paid the car payment 'cause we had gotten a new car. And, they were taking care of that for us.

Well, I had a C-section. Six weeks went by. I got released from the doctor. I'm going back to work. Granted, I was married to the best of men, so being independent was, financially was- Yeah ... was kinda top tier for me. So I wanted to go back to work, and they so much as said if I wasn't going to stay home and take care of their grandson and their son, and be there to support and care for him, then they were no longer gonna help us financially.

They were gonna stop helping pay the car payment. And I was like, "Okay. Well, I'm going back to work, so I don't need you to do that." [00:05:00] But what a weird threat.

Cassy: Yeah.

Amber: Because all of a sudden, because I'm now married and have another child with my husband

I now need to be home and do nothing but take care of the kids and fix his lunch.

Cassy: Yeah. I didn't see any of that growing up. That wasn't a thing.

Amber: Yeah. Over, over here, it was, it was pretty predominant i, I had a very good family, so it wasn't ever berated or- Right ... but it wasn't honored when- Yeah ... my mother had to go get a job because she divorced my father.

It was a had to, not a she desired to be independent. It was, "Well, since she messed up her life, she's gotta go work now."

Cassy: Proverbs 31 there seems to be actually... This is something I picked up on from here, that a l- it, it almost seems, you could correct me if I'm wrong, that women have been made to feel like they have to be all of these things, and it's almost been put on them as a list of, you're supposed to be all of these varieties of qualities, like a [00:06:00] weight of a burden.

Amber: Correct. It is a very comparison-centered list of characteristics, and that is what you would to achieve to be the worthy wife, the godly woman, the where you're supposed to be. This is, this is endgame. This is how you're supposed to be.

Cassy: That, and that's wild to me because I remember when I would read through Proverbs 31, I would be like, "This woman is, she's a badass."

, She's a businesswoman.

Amber: Mm-hmm.

Cassy: She's wise. She's caring. She fears the Lord. She's blessed. I mean, to me, I was like, "This is good stuff." So I didn't see it as like a list of to-dos in order to be, uh, worthy to some future husband of mine. I just saw it as something that was, a positive representation of what a wise, godly woman looks like.

I have heard it, it spun a little bit to be more domestic- Mm-hmm ... than it actually is. Looking at [00:07:00] the historical context and some of the language that's used is actually really cool, and this is not a domestic passage about some woman who's just at home making food and clothes for her family.

So I think that's gonna be fun to look into and dive in a little bit.

Amber: Yes.

Cassy: Do you want me to read it? There's not a lot of names, so I'm willing to read this.

Amber: yeah, go for it.

Cassy: As we get into this, you can kind of have a little bit of a, a perspective of this is a mother giving an oracle, words of wisdom to a son,

and this is potentially King Solomon, a nickname for him. But, ultimately, we were not really sure who the king is. Starting in verse ten, it says, "An excellent wife who can find? For her worth is far above jewels.

The heart of her husband trusts in her, and he will have no lack of gain. [00:08:00] She does him good and not evil all the days of her life. looks for wool and flax and works with her hands in delight. She is like merchant ships. She brings her food from afar. She rises also while it is still night and gives food to her household and portions to her maidens.

She considers a field and buys it. From her earnings, she plants a vineyard. She girds herself with strength and makes her arms strong. She senses that her gain is good. Her lamp does not go out at night. She stretches out her hands to the distaff, and her hands grasp the spindle. She extends her hand to the poor, and she stretches out her hands to the needy.

She's not afraid of the snow for her household, for all her household are clothed with scarlet. She [00:09:00] makes coverings for herself. Her clothing is fine linen and purple. Her husband is known in the gates. When he sits among the elders of the land, she makes linen garments and sells them and supplies belts to the tradesmen.

Strength and dignity are her clothing, and she smiles at the future. She opens her mouth in wisdom, and the teaching of kindness is on her tongue. She looks well to the ways of her household and does not eat the bread of idleness. Her children rise up and bless her. Her husband also, and he praises her, saying, 'Many daughters have done nobly, but you excel them all.'

Charm is deceitful, and beauty is vain. But a woman who fears the Lord, she shall be praised. Give her the product of her hands, and let her works praise her [00:10:00] in the gates." It's really a cool passage. It really is. It's a beautiful passage.

Amber: And going back to what, you know, I was previously taught, we always read all that, and then they were like, "And here are the traits that make you a virtuous, priceless woman," and trustworthy from verse 11, productive from verses 13 through 19, generous from verse 20, prepared from verse 21, elegant from 22, wise in speech from 24, and God-fearing from verse 30, and then remove all the context.

Cassy: And it's not like those things aren't there in the text too. They are, but that's a tall order to live up to if this is what you're supposed to achieve- Absolutely ... to be a good wife- Right ... and a good mother and a good woman. So, and that's why I think what I'm gonna say next is gonna be so important.

Because what I, what I have discovered in my study is that this is a poem, and it is a poem that's actually devised in an interesting way. There's 22 letters in the Hebrew language, and the way this poem is set up is that beginning each line [00:11:00] is the next consecutive letter of the Hebrew alphabet. So it's basically like what we would have A through Z, right?

Amber: And they use that style, this A to Z style, for a specific purpose, right?

Cassy: Yes. And it's very cool because basically, when you study the Book of Proverbs, you find there's, there's Lady Wisdom, and then there's also the Woman of Folly, and they're contrasted all throughout the Book of Proverbs. And, you know, obviously you wanna avoid the Woman of Folly, and you want to pursue Lady Wisdom.

And there's all kinds of things promised in Lady Wisdom. There's, there's, long life, there's wealth, good stuff, right? This, this poem of Proverbs at the end here is a culmination of the teachings of wisdom. Basically, it is taking Lady Wisdom, which is wisdom personified as a woman, and bringing the complete teaching [00:12:00] into view in one poem.

In other words, it's like saying, "This is everything from A to Z on the subject of wisdom." It's wisdom in action. Like what a life that is completely filled with wisdom looks like in action, which completely opens up this teaching to go well beyond how to be a good wife.

Right? It's

Amber: a little deeper than-

Cassy: Yeah. Now we've gone from there's a surface level teaching of, of a woman giving her son instructions on, "Hey, when you look for a spouse, there's some things that you would like to have a part of that conversation," and takes it from just that surface level, and now it becomes a teaching to the entirety of God's people of what it looks like to live out a wisdom-filled life.

Mm-hmm. That's so much cooler, by the way, because now we really dig in, and you can [00:13:00] go verse by verse looking for real nourishment on what wise living looks like. And you find that in this Lady Wisdom, there's everything from business strategy, skills, giving to the poor, being full of peace, having a good outlook on the future, and, and all of this being rooted in her fear of the Lord.

Mm-hmm. And the ultimate outcome is that she is praised and , has a life filled with every good thing. Right out of the gate, there's some interesting language used. It talks about her being a woman of valor, it says, "An excellent wife, who can find? For her worth is far above jewels."

But that, that excellent wife there who can find, this is a woman of valor, and that's actually the word that's used. It's a word [00:14:00] that means valor. Military power, elite warrior, army of tactical prowess. So this is the, the type of imagery that goes along with valor, right?

And that's how they present Lady Wisdom from the beginning, that excellent wife. The next thing it goes into in verse 11 is that her husband is gonna have no lack of gain. That word gain there is , spoils of war. Not typically how we think of biblical womanhood. And so there's the imagery that's coming here as we're gonna read about her, her economic management, and basically her returns generated by her economic management are compared to that of prize earnings from a victorious military campaign. Typically, we think of biblical womanhood as being subservient, domestic, not woman of valor with tactical prowess, [00:15:00] with spoils of war, right?

Verse 12 goes on and says that she does him good and not evil all the days of her life. Eastern, treaty documents- Mm-hmm ... used that language in them. So this was covenant language. They would have understood that at the time that this was not just about the wife is supposed to always do nice things to the husband, and she never does anything bad to him.

This is something that would have been recognized as something you would see in a treaty, a covenant between two peoples or two people. .. And, and that's really what the marriage relationship is, right? Mm-hmm. There's a covenant relationship there. And so that's what this-- it's bringing that into view.

Then we go on, and we get into this very business area, verse 13, "She looks for wool and flax, and works with her hands in delight." When she's looking for wool and flax, these are the two industrial pillars. Wool comes from livestock, flax comes [00:16:00] from,

Amber: the stems and seed of the flowering plant, so it is a flax plant And it's native to the Eastern Mediterranean to India.

Cassy: And they made linen out of it, right?

Amber: Yes.

Cassy: Okay. So, but these were like the two industrial pillars. they formed the economic foundation of the Mediterranean textiles at this time.

She seeks them is that she's actually, have it- having an active procurement of it. She's like going after looking for these things. Mm-hmm. So if you're looking at this from a practical standpoint, you're looking at a woman who's a very business-minded woman, right?

Amber: Yes. This, I mean, this text is elevating women in business and leadership, proving that career calling and creativity have always been part of the blueprint for a godly womanhood.

Cassy: Yes. And then at a deeper level, we can start to look at this as like what does wisdom look like in action for all of God's people? She's like a merchant ship. She brings her food from afar. And so this has to do with trade. In [00:17:00] order for her to bring things from afar, she's gotta have something to give. So she's gonna be trading from her surplus from her business endeavors.

Amber: So she's dealing with some representative from another land- and trading goods.

Cassy: Yes.

Amber: So it's a very business situation.

Cassy: Very much so. she rises also while it is still night and gives food to her household and portions to her maidens. I think we think of, like, she's getting up and making breakfast for the kids and the hubby.

But this goes along with that whole business mind She's managing a full estate. She's getting up and giving portions and assignments she's actually managing and overseeing the people who are gonna be actively, running the estate.

It's her morning huddle, right? You're gonna be handling this. You're gonna be handling that. This is what I need done today. Here are the portions of, uh, that you need for yourselves and also for the items that you'll need to continue to [00:18:00] complete the work that you have ahead of you.

Amber: Yes, it's that not doing it all in human strength, but true strength. Knows how to delegate, build a community, and avoid that burnout.

Cassy: Right.

Amber: So that's something that all of humanity can get from this passage.

Cassy: Very leadership perspective, right?

Amber: Yeah.

Cassy: I mean, this is something that me and you operate in week after week after week.

This is what we do.

Amber: Yes.

Cassy: We, uh, we analyze, we assess, we go after things that are gonna be the resources that we need. We delegate. We communicate.

Amber: Yes.

Cassy: We allocate.

Amber: Or we burn out.

Cassy: Rightso the next verse goes on, she considers a field and she buys it from her earnings. She plants a vineyard. So in order to consider the field, she's not just like, "Hmm, I wonder if I wanna buy some field."

No. She's going she goes to the land, she's looking at it. What's the water like? What's the soil like? Is this gonna be good, a good return on my investment? This is a business [00:19:00] mindset.

Amber: Yes. And she buys it. She doesn't go, "Oh, husband- Right ... I did this research for you. Do you wanna purchase this?"

Cassy: Yeah.

Amber: It's she went, she did it, she made the choice.

It's done.

Cassy: Yes.

Amber: It's a deal. She did

Cassy: it. Start to finish. N- not the domestic painting that we have been told right? She takes initiative on her own endeavors. Purchases it from the surplus. So apparently she's very good at the business side of things because she has surplus not only to trade with, but also surplus for something that is a long-term investment, 'cause that's what it would be for that.

So We're seeing manufacturing- Mm-hmm ... we're seeing trade, we're seeing long-term investment, and we can also see that at that deeper level of seeing this as the A to Z on wisdom, a life filled with wisdom, you're diversifying your portfolio, right? You know?

She girds herself with strength and makes her arms strong. She senses that her gain is good. [00:20:00] Her lamp does not go out at night. This is somebody who has surplus enough that their lamp doesn't go out, but they're also have an ability to, assess the market conditions- Mm-hmm

and recognize their gain is good.

Verse 19, "She stretches out her hand to the distaff." I could be saying it could be distaff or distaff, one of the two. Distaff, distaff. "And her hands grasp the spindle." All right, so from what I learned about this, looking at the historical context, this was an expectation of elite women that they would be masters at the art of making textiles.

So she is representing a high level of skill. So we've got somebody who's business-minded, diversifies their portfolio, can assess market conditions, can assess property and return on investment. They're also highly skilled. [00:21:00]

Amber: Yes, and, one note that I had on this passage also was you don't have to sew your own clothes from s- scratch or grind your own wheat to embody this particular example.

It's the practice looks different now, but it's still the, the principle of diligence, care, and love-

Cassy: Mm-hmm ...

Amber: is what she's doing.

Cassy: Yep.

Then we kind of get into a new area. She extends her hand to the poor, and she stretches out her hands to the needy. So not only is she have surplus for trade, she has surplus for long-term investment, she also has surplus for the community, She's not just functioning as somebody who's accumulating wealth, personal wealth, but functions as a a public, relief system using that surplus to give to those in need. I-- Doesn't that sound like wisdom? Like the [00:22:00] extent if... And especially with we know that, the New Testament says that wisdom is bound up in the person of Jesus Christ.

He is wisdom.

Amber: Yes.

Cassy: He is the ultimate public relief system.

Amber: I like that

Cassy: She opens her mouth in wisdom, and the teaching of kindness is on her tongue. So we've gone from, from that business mindset into her pouring out for others, for her own, her husband being recognized in the gates and in the courts, and now she's also somebody who teaches. She teaches kindness. She pours out wisdom out of her mouth.

Charm is deceitful and beauty is vain. But a woman who fears the Lord, she shall be praised. Give her the product of her hands and let her works praise her in the gates." So charm is deceitful and beauty is vain, which is if you-- we go back to the mom teaching the son, basically it's like, "Okay, I know she's cute-"[00:23:00]

but..."

Amber: Need to look for some substance.

Cassy: Yeah, there needs to be a little bit more beyond that because cuteness doesn't last forever, okay? but a woman who fears the Lord, she shall be praised. And so if you're looking for a wise, covenant relationship that's meant to last till you go to your grave, you're gonna look for a woman who , fears the Lord because she's a woman who's gonna be praised.

And then give her the product of her hands. This is how it ends. Give her the product of her hands, not her husband's hands, of her hands, and let her works praise her in the gates.

That word product could also be the fruit. Give her the fruit of her hands and let her works praise her in the gates. She's got a lot of fruit, right? And that can go into all kinds of different areas. But when I, when I first was, like, really standing on this as a promise, I was a guitar major.

And so I very much had a fruit of my hands.

Amber: Mm-hmm.

Cassy: And there [00:24:00] was, a time period-- I, I, I found it to be very hard. I started late. I didn't start playing guitar until I was 19, and then I decided, "Let's go ahead and get a master's degree in that. That'll be a great idea." So when I went into college, I was way late on developing my skill set.

And it showed because I had to take some extra time to learn it. And, and at one point I was trying to get my bachelor's degree, and they had failed my jury to graduate I had already secured a, a full ride actually at a private university. That's a

Amber: conflict.

Cassy: So I really needed to graduate. Was gonna lose that.

That was gonna be a big deal. And the Lord is very interesting how he does things, but eventually I was given a second chance to do my jury, and they went ahead and passed me. But at my bachelor performance, So you do, you do a performance. That's how, like how you graduate. Mm-hmm. It's kinda like your, your big to-do, your big final thing. And it's an hour long.

It's a lot of work. So [00:25:00] you memorize this music. You perform this music by yourself on stage in front of all of your peers who also are studying this music, and they know all the mistakes you're making. They know how you're phrasing, you know, what you're doing right and wrong, and they're very critical.

So it's, it's terrorizing actually to do this. But I, at this point, I don't remember what happened, why I got it stuck in my head, but that verse like was in me. Mm-hmm. And I remember, it's not about how excellent I am, because I c- I have studied, I have practiced, I have done all the things, and I am going to be what I am when I walk out on that stage.

That's just gonna be what it is. But your word, Lord, says that a woman who fears the Lord shall be praised.

Amber: Mm-hmm.

Cassy: You didn't say a woman who does it perfect shall be praised. You said a woman who fears you is the one who's gonna be praised.

And then you said, "Give her the fruit of her hands." This is very practical [00:26:00] to me at this time And let her works, so I'm literally gonna walk out on the stage and play this guitar. Let her works praise her in the gates, and that gates being that picture of judgment, right? Mm-hmm. There's a little bit of that court judgment there.

And I remember I played the first half of my bachelor recital, and I thought I did very bad. I was not happy with the first half, and I was in the back and I was crying. And my professors that had failed me and then had changed their mind to pass me came back, and they were, like, astonished.

The one especially who was very critical of my playing, was like, "Why are you crying?" Like, "I don't get it. You're doing way better than I thought you would," they were seeing somebody who had learned the music that they didn't think I was gonna be able to learn it in time. And I was performing it to a standard that they didn't think I was gonna be able to perform it at.

And so the product of my hands was praised. It was very impactful for me 'cause [00:27:00] my perspective was totally different. Mm-hmm. But I, I remember taking this verse and saying, "But your word, Lord, says this." And I've used that in other circumstances. I would say, "Lord, I'm looking for the praise, because, one, I need it to just be encouraged."

"But two, because your word says so."

Amber: Mm-hmm. "

Cassy: Your word says that a woman who fears the Lord, she's gonna be praised. Well, that's me." Mm-hmm. "So I'm expecting the praise. And you say specifically that the, the fruit or the product of my hands is going to be praised. So whatever work I'm doing, I expect it to be praised.

I expect to be told, 'Good job.'" "That's really good. Good stuff." Mm-hmm. And I think that, but it's very much rooted in that I fear the Lord. I know that I fear the L- I have respect and reverence for Him, and I'm rooted in Him. So that's what I get.

Amber: Mm-hmm.

Cassy: Because the Word says so.

Amber: Yes.

Cassy: And I like that kinda stuff.

I like to live in that because that is a faith-filled place to be. [00:28:00] It's, it has brought a lot of peace to me as a person because, I'm very critical of my own performance- but, that brings peace even when in the back of my head I'm thinking, "I definitely did not do that great, but your word says I get the praise anyways, Lord, so I'll take it."

Do you have any overall thoughts? Y- a, a couple. you know, overall in that passage, the ultimate value stems from honoring and fearing God, right?

Yep.

Amber: And what makes a woman or any person truly remarkable in God's eyes is the relationship with Him, and then that overflows into how they, we, she, he loves others.

Cassy: Mm-hmm.

Amber: It's even in that praise. It's the opportunity to then share the gospel and be like, "You know why I did so well? It wasn't 'cause of me- Mm-hmm ... it's because of this promise, and let me tell you all about it."

Cassy: So if you think about this as being the, the culmination of the Book of Proverbs, and wisdom being personified as a woman.

All of [00:29:00] this life lived that's being displayed here in this poem is outflowing being, being rooted in the fear of the Lord, you see that all the d- the right decision-making, all of the, the perspectives of how to move forward are grounded on a foundation of having that reverence for God, for the Lord.

Amber: Mm-hmm.

Cassy: So I think it's really cool to, to see it in that light of this being not just a passage about how to, how to be the perfect wife- Mm ... for some husband that deserves a good wife. You know? And, and God's not gonna give you a good husband unless you're this, this woman, this excellent wife.

Amber: Check off this list-

Cassy: Yes ... of

Amber: attributes.

Cassy: Mm-hmm. But rather it being a, a teaching for us to really take seriously that having that reverence and that adoration and that trust in the Lord produces that life well-lived. Mm-hmm. Gosh, that's good. [00:30:00] Mm-hmm. And that being personified in the person of a woman should be impactful to the people of God- Mm ... in recognizing that this life well-lived filled with skill, stamina, and strategy, that that is not, that's not a male perspective. That is a godly life. Mm-hmm. Right? For the men, for the women. And so this biblical womanhood, it can look a little bit different than I think what sometimes our, our past teaching has told us it looks like.

Amber: Yes, it's an even playing field for all.

Cassy: We've looked at passages that are traditionally used to say that women are not to teach or have authority over men, that the husband is their boss. A-and when we really look at it, we find that the context of the culture at the time is really the foundation of why the passages are written that way.

, We look at Paul really addressing things in that church at that time in 1 Timothy [00:31:00] 2:12. We look at 1 Corinthians chapter 14. He's really actually correcting that Corinthian church for trying to silence women, and that's a fantastic teaching. If you don't know that one and you haven't listened to that episode, go back and listen to it 'cause it's a really eye-opening teaching.

It really is foundational for kinda moving out of this mindset that women are somehow subordinate. Mm-hmm. And then the husband being the head of the wife, not the head of the house, is what is taught in scripture, and that headship to the wife is one of self-sacrifice and love. It is a source of life. And, there isn't actually any language around the husband being the boss.

Mm-mm. It's not there when you go look for it. And really, you can kinda go back to creation and just see that from the beginning, God said that He made them male and female, and He said that He was going to let them rule, and that was given together, the two of them.

Amber: When it was very good

Cassy: that was the very good. That's right.

Amber: [00:32:00] Make sure you come back next season. We're gonna be exploring our identity in Christ and the foundations of the gospel.

Cassy: Yep. Good stuff. All right. Thank you guys for joining us, and we'll see you in a few weeks.

Amber: See you soon.