July 13, 2026

Let Them Rule

Show Notes
Transcript

In this episode of Martha, Mary and Mayhem, Cassandra Barbato and Amber Jenks head back to Genesis in search of truth and unity. Turns out God already gave us both when He said, “Let them rule.”

We’re talking Adam, Eve, the garden, the fall, and a few long-standing church assumptions that may need to be escorted politely—but firmly—out of the building. With Scripture open they dig into what the Bible actually says about authority, unity, and the Gospel that redeems what the fall distorted.

"The woman was made of a rib out of the side of Adam; not made out of his head to rule over him, nor out of his feet to be trampled upon by him, but out of his side to be equal with him, under his arm to be protected, and near his heart to be beloved" - English nonconformist minister and Bible scholar Matthew Henry (1662–1714)

This episode includes AI-generated content.

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They whispered. Leave the deep thoughts. Dear, just smile and

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be sweet. Don't worry about the doctrine. Just find yourself

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a seat. But the gospel shatter strongholds. It's a wrecking

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ball of grace. We're tearing down the tired lies all

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over this holy place. Martha, Mary and may Welcome to Martha,

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Mary and Mayhem. This is Cassandra Barbado. I am your host,

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and I'm here with my co host Amber Jinks. Hello,

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and we are going to be talking about some important

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things today impacting a large portion of the body of Christ.

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What's interesting is that if you really dig into this subject,

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you actually find that a lot of the teaching on

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keeping women out of ministry and really promoting these strong

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lines of authority where the woman is subordinate come from

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what is an interpretation of scripture and not actually what

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scripture says. So I'm really excited to get into this

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because of my background too. I felt a call to

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the ministry, but I had teaching that was telling me

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I'm not allowed to do that. And I think you've

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expressed similar feelings as well. Yes, yeah, And what we're

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going to talk about today is going to be about one.

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It's going to show the truth of the origins of

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Adam and Eve and how God set things up. But

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it also is going to represent the unity that Adam

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and Eve have. So truth and unity is the direction

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we want to go. When you were growing up in church,

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what were some of the teachings that you came across.

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There are several, but to start with, we'll take it

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back to Genesis. You know the creation of man and woman.

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Man was created first. Adam came first, so therefore he

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must be in charge.

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And some of that comes from First Timothy chapter two,

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and there's some descriptions there about Adam being formed first

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and then Eve, and the interpretation is they take that

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as a setting up of a line of authority. We're

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going to go look at Genesis and we're gonna see

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what Genesis actually says. Does that sound good? Let's go alrighty,

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all right? So let's go to Genesis chapter two, verse seven,

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and it says, then the Lord God formed man of

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the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils

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the breath of life, and man became a living being.

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The Lord God planned to the garden towards the east

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in the Eden, and there he placed the man whom

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he had formed out of the ground. The Lord God

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caused every tree to grow that is pleasing to sight

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and good for food. The tree of life also in

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the midst of the garden, and the tree of the

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knowledge of good and evil. So give us some more

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details about the garden, right, And we've got these two

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very important trees that at some point I'm going to

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talk all kinds about. I hear they come up. Yeah, yeah,

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you've heard it a few times. Huh. And then we

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go down and we see that God says he commands

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the man, saying, from any tree of the garden, you

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may freely eat. Actually, let me back up a verse.

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So then the Lord God took the man and put

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him into the garden of Eden to cultivate and keep it.

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And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, from any

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tree of the garden, you may freely eat. And this

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is important. There's actually some really cool stuff that I'm

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not going to totally dig into right now. But there's

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a reason why God put Adam in the garden first.

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And I know that there's been a lot of teaching

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around Adam was put in, he was made first, he's

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put in the garden first, and that means that he

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is the one being given the rules of the garden right,

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and he's going to be the leader, and he's going

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to be passing this on to Eve. But actually you're

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getting in here pictures of Christ, and there's pictures of

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the Gospel, and so at some point we can like

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deep dive into what it means that the Adam who

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is a type, he's patterned after Christ. That's in Romans.

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Apostle Paul talks about that in the Book of Romans.

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Why Why? What is another rendering of why Adam is

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in the garden without Eve just yet and God is

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speaking over him the work that he's supposed to do

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and the law that he is supposed to keep. There's

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things there that are about the gospel about Christ fulfilling

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the work on our behalf and keeping the law on

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our behalf, so that we might come out from him.

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The Lord God fashioned into a woman the rib which

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he had taken from the man, and brought her to

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the man. And the man said, now this is bone

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of my bones and flesh of my flesh. She shall

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be called woman because she is taken out of man.

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That's the other argument. She was taken from the man.

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It wasn't.

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She was created anew like he was right, she's part

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of him. Well, she's part of him. I think that

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actually is a better argument, is that they were never

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created to be separate. They were created to be in unity.

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It was never one is over the other. It is

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a creation of being one. I mean, even we talk

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about the marriage relationship, it's the two become one flesh.

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God declares right. But there's that taking from the rib,

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right out from the side. And this is actually an

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old saying, and I can't remember who originally wrote this,

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but it's been quoted over and over again throughout history,

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that she was not taken from his head that she

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should rule over him, not taken from his foot that

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he should rule over her, but taken from his side.

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And my grandfather was the one who actually first taught

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me that, and I didn't realize that it wasn't his saying.

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I've actually heard people say that at weddings they decided

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it well oh really, yeah, yeah, yeah, so's there's a

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oh and I'm going to look it up and i'll

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maybe I'll put it in the notes of the podcast.

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Because I know that there's like an original author to

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that particular theological idea that's kind of just gone through

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the years. So the Adam and Eve is a great

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love story, and at some point I think we could

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probably talk about that too, but I really want to

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focus on the next portion, which is the one, the

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one key thing I'm going to bring it up. I've

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told myself i'd make sure to talk about how God said,

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let them rule, and I want to read that to

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you now, because here's the storyline that we're seeing. God

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creates Adam, and he places him in the garden, and

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he gives them some stuff to do and some rules

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to follow, right, and then he says, not good to

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be alone. So the woman actually becomes the solution to

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the first problem that we have. And then we follow

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that line and now we have both the man and

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woman created, and we can actually go back to chapter

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one and see what God declared when he had the full,

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the full two images of himself. So Genesis chapter one,

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verse twenty six says, then God said, let us make

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man in our image according to our likeness, and let

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them rule over the fish of the sea, over the

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birds of the sky, over the cattle, and over all

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the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on

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the earth. God created man in his own image and

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the image of God. He created them, or created him

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male and female. He created them. God blessed them, and

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God said to them, be fruitful and multiply fill the

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earth and subdue it, and rule over the fish of

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the sea, and over the birds of the sky, and

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over every living thing that moves on the earth. Then

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God said, behold, I have given you every plant yielding

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seed that is on the surface of the earth. And

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he goes on and on, and then at the end

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here in verse thirty one, God saw all that he

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had made, and behold, it was very good. So now

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we have very good. So we went from not good

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to very good. But the part that I think is

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really important to note in this is that there's no

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dominion given to Adam until Eve is created, because dominion

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wasn't designed to be just for the man. It was

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just to be for both of the images of God.

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And it makes sense too, because if you have a

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creation that is formed in the image of the King

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of the universe but has no dominion, can it really

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be in the image of that king? It can't, right,

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So you've got the man and the woman both created

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in the image of God. Does that makes sense? Yep?

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Do you have any thoughts on.

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It other than I completely agree? But to refer back

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to the teachings, you know, we rewind a little bit

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and Adam called her woman, right, right, so he named her,

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so therefore had you know you have that. He also

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named the animals, and he named Eve, and he's over

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the animals. So that's one of the those.

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Arguments, and I have heard that. I think this one

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is probably one of the most belittling of the teachings

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that I have heard on Why Adam would be in

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charge of Eve that somehow because he named the animals

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and then she was brought to him in like basically

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they're they're saying that because the animals were brought to

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Adam and Eve was brought to Adam and he named

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them that, I mean, you're are you are we really

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doing that?

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He was she was paraded in front of him.

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And then he named her, and so it's like, it's

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so right, it's very degrading. But let's let's go ahead

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and look at this because I don't want to dismiss

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anything that is being taught without giving an answer to it.

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And the there's a bigger answer in the names that

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are given to Eve, because he actually names her twice.

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He names her Eve after the Fall, which is actually

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very interesting because he names her Eve, which means life,

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and this is after death and curse was brought to

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all of creation. So and I have thoughts about that too.

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But there's the idea there is that there's a reason

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and a purpose behind the names that are given, and

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they are very much just like Adam being placed in

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the garden. All of these things are actually pictures of

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the Gospel. They're pictures of the woman being made out

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from Adam, just like the Church is made out from Christ.

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We are we're called the body of Christ. There's a

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picture of unity there there. It's really designed to from

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the get go tell the gospel story before it was

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even technically needed. Yet God he put it into all

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that he did so that when the fall did happen,

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because he is God, he knows it's coming, right that

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there would be pictures from the beginning about the love

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of God, the love of Christ for his bride. Right,

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So the woman coming out from Adam and him naming

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her in likeness, that she came out from him is

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all talking about the gospel message. The Eve thing is

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also talking about. It's a foreshadowing of the one who

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would bring forth the Christ. And so she literally becomes

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the mother of all the living because the Savior is

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going to come through the woman. And these names are

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important for that purpose to tell the story of the Gospel.

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They're not important for saying Adam's in charge of Eve.

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In fact, there's nothing in scripture that says because he

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named her, he's in charge of her. That's an interpretation

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that you have to put on the passage, right, Yeah,

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in order to get that idea out of it. And

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I find a lot of that going on that if

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you're trying to say that it's a restriction or it's

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a demonstration of authority, but you're actually having to use

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an interpretation of what you're saying in order to see

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that where if you look at the text, the text

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says let them rule, Like there's no interpretation there them

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is there? Right, So you don't have to try and

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look for what's going on. All of the things that

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got commanded on them and gave them, giving them dominion

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was a together thing from the beginning, and there's no

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need to try and figure out some external interpretation in

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order to understand that or see that in the text. Yeah.

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Also, oh go ahead, I was gonna say, also, but

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you brought up the fall, So there's kind of a

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twofold to the fall for the support that women are

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subordinate one it was her fault, right, is part of

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the teaching, but also the consequences of the fall. And

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one of those consequences is that man would then rule over.

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Her right and he did, and he has for thousands

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of years and still today. This is why we're still

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seeing this. I mean, really, when you think about it,

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the reality is is that while we have been redeemed

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from curse, we've been redeemed from death in Christ. We've

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been completely forgiven all the way slap that back, all

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the way to Adam right. Sin has been paid for.

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So the reality of who we are in Christ and

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what is biblical or let me say Kingdom principles rather

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does not change the fact that we haven't seen the

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full redemption of creation yet. And so just because we're

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still seeing fallenness in this world doesn't mean that we

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want to represent that as the Church I feel like

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that'sh to be a no brainer. But at this point,

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if we're looking to the what is outlined in what

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God has said, and we probably should read it just

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because I like to read the scripture. So all right,

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let's go ahead and read. We know the story. Satan

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deceives the woman. She believes that she's gonna gain from

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eating the forbidden fruit. Turns out was a big fat

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lie Adam who was with her by the way, and

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eight as well. And they both are now naked and

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the shame and they cover themselves with some fig leaves,

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and God goes looking for him. He says, let me

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find my verses. God says to him, who told you

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were naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which

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I commanded you not to eat? This is Genesis chapter three,

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verse eleven. The man said, the woman whom you gave

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to be with me, she gave me from the tree,

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and I ate. And the Lord God said to the woman,

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what is this you have done? And the woman said,

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the serpent deceived me, and I ate. And the Lord

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God said to the serpent, because you have done this,

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you're cursed. Are you more than all cattle and more

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than every beast of the field. On your belly, you

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will go and dust. You will eat all the days

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of your life. And I will put enmity between you

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and the woman. I feel like we should just sit

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there for a second, because from right here we're seeing

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there's a special enmity between Satan and the woman, and

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so I think that there's a lot of things that

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we've seen throughout history that can verify that. Yes. Yeah,

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and between your seed and her seed, she shall bruise

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you on the head, and you shall bruise him on

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the heel. To the woman, he said, I will greatly

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multiply your pains and childbirth, and in pain you will

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bring forth children. Yet your desire will be for your husband,

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and he will rule over you. So we can start

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seeing some of the consequences. Right, she's going to have

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increased pains and childbirth. She's going to have her husband

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ruling over her. And then to Adam, he said, because

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you have listened to the voice of your wife and

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have eaten from the tree about which I commanded, you

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say you shall not eat from it. Cursed is the

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ground because of you in toil. You will eat of

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it all the days of your life, both thorns and thistles.

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It will grow for you will, and you will eat

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the plants of the field. By the sweat of your face.

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You will eat bread till you return to the ground,

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because from it you were taken, For you were dust,

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and to dust you shall return. Dramatic. So, but there's

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suffering because there's lack, there's excessively hard work with little produce.

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All of the things that we see that are terrors

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and horrors in the world literally come out from them

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as starvation. The thorns and the thistles represent pains and sufferings.

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I think that collectively we do agree that the extremes

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of these of poverty and the extremes of suffering and

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starvation and death that came out of the fall are

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all bad. Like I think we would generally agree on that. Yeah,

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I'm pretty sure that good majority vote. Yeah, majority vote.

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I think Christians agree Starving children bad thing, right, That's

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that's evil, and we're we're looking forward to the full redemption,

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and we actually strive as Christians to try and bring

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resources to to help those in need. Labor pains. It's

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another one. We're not sitting around going yay, she's this's great. Yes, No,

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it's usually a time of where the whole family is

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like grieving and waiting for the woman to come through

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the pains because it's it's scary, it has a sense

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of danger to it. And I know we live in

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a world where we have such great medical resources, but

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it wasn't always like that. These labor pains were terrifying

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because of the possibility of death. Child birth scary stuff.

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Pretty bad back then, Yeah, it really was. And nobody's

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sitting around celebrating the fact that it was so bad. Yeah.

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And so what's interesting to me, though, is that you

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can go through all these different points in the fall,

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and generally we agree that those are not good, except

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for the one where the man rules over the woman.

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That one, we're like that one's way, that one stays.

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We're not going to fight that one, just the other things.

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And so, yes, we do still see it today. We

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still see pains, sufferings, sickness, disease, and we still see

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man ruling over woman. But when God's Kingdom steps into

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the picture, we see the sick healed, we see demons

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cast out, we see deliverance from bondage, we see abundance.

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I mean, you think about all the miracles of Christ.

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When he broke bread and fish, there was an abundance

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left over. So all of these factors that were in

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the fall, when God's kingdom comes near, they are eliminated.

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So we don't we're not gonna highlight them as believers

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and say this is actually part of what we're supposed

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to be promoting as a kingdom principle.

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Okay, So what we're saying is the point of the

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story is that the first thing God said was let

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them rule.

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You can see it so clear. It was not good

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when he was alone. God literally put him in the

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garden and gave him some stuff to do and went, Nope,

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that's not gonna work. We're gonna need a woman and

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created Eve and then dominion was established. Yeah. So if

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we're seeing it in light of where does authority come in,

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the authority doesn't start until both are there. Yeah, and

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then Satan and the fall and rebellion and those consequences

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cannot reverse what God's principles are. The whole point of

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why Christ had to come was to redeem us back

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from that fall. It's not good, not good stuff. So

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the end of the story, there where you get to

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Adam and Eve having the different consequences of their sin

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being declared can't undo what God's original plan was. And actually,

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if you really want to get into it, when Christ came,

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he did not actually just put us back to our

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original natural state. We went to a next level in Christ.

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And this is something that we probably should touch on

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at some point in a later episode more in depth.

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But we've been made a royal priesthood, right, a royal

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priesthood of a kingdom that is not of this earth.

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So we had dominion on the earth. But when Christ

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came and he redeemed the fall, he brought us to

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a new, everlasting life in him and seated us on

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a throne with him in heaven. I mean, that's crazy,

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because no longer is it about an earthly dominion. Yes,

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we have earthly dominion, because our heavenly dominion is even

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higher than this one, and so the authority that we

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have now is even far surpassed where it was at

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the beginning. Okay, so I hope I'm making sense. At

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this point, We've gone through a lot of different things.

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We talked about a couple of different teachings that you

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heard in the church some things that I've heard as well.

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Tried to offer a little bit of correction for some

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of that, But the main takeaway is the dominion issue.

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Where and when did God give dominion? When you actually

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go back to the beginning, right, you see that you

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have Adam created, but there isn't dominion given to Adam yet.

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It's not until the woman is created that you see dominion.

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That's where we hear God say let them rule, and

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he says it twice actually, and even tells them to subdue.

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So there's a lot of language in there that gives

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clear mandate for both the man and woman alongside each

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other to rule. The fall is where we see the

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introduction of the man ruling over the woman. And this

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is clearly a negative thing. Yes, yeah, and that is

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something that Christ bought us back from, but we didn't

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just get bought back to an earthly standard of ruling

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alongside each other. It is a heavenly one. As the Church,

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as God's people, we don't want to be representing this

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fallen earth. We want to be representing Kingdom principles. So

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if I could wrap up the whole thing I'm getting at,

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that would be where I would go just summing it

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up for today. Next week we're going to actually go

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into Timothy and look at the passage that typically has

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been interpreted to say that Adam formed first meant he's

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in charge. So it'll be a really nice next step

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to go through as we are talking through this important subject.

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Would you agree, absolutely? Yeah. So we'll be looking at

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some tough things next week, and we hope that you

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come and join us. We hope you enjoyed the message.

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Yep, please join us next week. We'll see you then,