Aug. 18, 2026

Nailed It!

Show Notes
Transcript

God didn’t need a “Plan B” when He called women to lead.

In this episode, we look at Deborah, Jael, and Huldah—women God deliberately used to lead, speak His word, and deliver His people.

We unpack why Deborah’s leadership was not evidence that there were “no good men,” why Barak’s request for her presence wasn’t cowardice, and how Huldah was trusted to deliver an authoritative word from God even when male prophets were available.

Scriptures discussed:
Judges 2:16–18 • Judges 4–5 • 1 Chronicles 17:6 • Hebrews 11 • 2 Kings 22 • Isaiah 3:12 • 1 Corinthians 1:25–29

Bottom line: God calls, equips, and uses whom He chooses—and Scripture gives us clear examples of women He called to lead.

This episode includes AI-generated content.

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They whispered, leave the deep thoughts. Dear, just smile and

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be sweet. Don't worry about the doctrine. Just find yourself

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a seat. But the gospel shatters strongholds. It's a wrecking

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ball of grace. We're tearing down the tired lies all

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over this holy place. Martha, Mary, and may Welcome back,

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Mayhem Makers. This is Cassandra Barbado, your host.

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And this is Amber Jing's your co host. Welcome back.

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So in this episode, which we are affectionately calling nailed It,

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nailed it, we're gonna look at different women throughout the Bible.

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We have in the last several episodes looked at different

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parts of scripture that in our upbringing, in our history

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were taught to us in a way that maybe didn't

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allow women to be in pastoral positions, and through our

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own convictions, we felt the need to go back and

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revisit those scriptures and make sure that that's what was

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being told.

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We've looked at four different main passages, right, So we

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started in Genesis just to go and part of that

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is because people are always trying to tie Fir Timothy

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two twelve back to creation order that God from the

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beginning established that man's in charge of women. But when

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you go back there, that's not what we find. So

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we went through Genesis. We went through First Timothy chapter two, Right,

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that's the one that people like to hang their hat

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on that women are not supposed to be in ministry.

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But when you study it out, you find that it's

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really something that Paul is dealing He's dealing with a

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false teaching crisis in the Efesian Church, and so when

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you read it in that context, of the main crux

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of it is that it is something that Paul is

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dealing with for that church at that time. He's not

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trying to say that all women for all time cannot

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be in a position of leadership. So and then there's

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First Corinthians chapter fourteen that women are to be set

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in the church, something that Corinthians were teaching and Paul

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is shutting them down and telling them that's not the case.

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And then the last one that we did on the

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main passages there was for Timothy chapter three, which is

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all of the criteria for leadership roles, right, And when

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you find when you go through it, you find that

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actually the language is grammatically male, because that was the

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default for when you're talking about a mixed gender group.

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Yep.

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And then also we talked about the husband being the

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head of the wife and that being a passage that's

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really about love and mutual submission. So and so we've

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gone through all of these different main passages, right, And

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if you're a.

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Skeptic like me, you're like, Okay, cool, if that's really

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what you mean, show me the proof. Where is it? Lord?

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Where where are my examples? So in this episode we're

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going to look at a couple of what I like

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to call biblical baddies.

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If he calls both men and women to any level

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of leadership, and we're saying that God does in fact

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call women to positions of leadership over a mixed congregation,

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then we should be able to see that in scripture

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as well. And good news, ladies, we actually do you

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want to start with Deborah? Let's start with Deborah.

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Love it.

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You gotta deal with Deborah. The biggest presentation I've heard

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against Deborah being a good example of leadership is that

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there was no good men. Yes, and because there was

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no good men, God was like, we need a woman

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to do this, because that's my only choice, that's God's

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only choice. Somehow, from the beginning of creation. He looked

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down the line of humanity, and he forgot to put

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a good man in that lineage to rule at that time. Yeah,

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and so he decided that he's gonna, dang it, I

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messed that up, and I've got to put a woman

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in there.

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I love how the people that argue that God is divined,

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they're like, man, maybe he just overlooked this one. Yeah,

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that's their argument for Yes.

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So these are things that people are putting on the

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text that don't actually exist in the text in order

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to make it fit within a doctrine that they have

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already accepted. I guess we could jump in and start

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reading scripture.

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I think that's a great place to start.

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Nice. So I'm in chapter two, verse sixteen, of Judges.

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It says, then the Lord raised up judges who saved

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them out of the hands of these raiders. Yet they

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would not listen to their judge, but prostituted themselves to

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other gods and worshiped them. They quickly turned from their

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ways of their ancestors, who had been obedient to the

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Lord's commands. Whenever the Lord raised up a judge for them,

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he was with the judge and saved them out of

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the hands of their enemies as long as the judge lived,

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for the Lord relented because of their groanings under those

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who oppressed and afflicted them. So this was something that

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he raised up the judges. They had a purpose for deliverance,

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and he was with the judge to deliver God's people.

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So one of the things that I've heard before is that, well,

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there's no women pastors in the New Testament, Like Paul

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never highlights a woman as being a pastor. No other

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apostle or writer of Testament highlights a woman as a pastor.

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But I mean, it's kind of a silly argument because

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there's no men called pastor in the New Testament. However,

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here in the Old Testament we do have this reference

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to judges being called shepherds, which is where you get

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the word pastor from. So the pastor being a shepherd,

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they have a flock that they're caring for, protecting, and all.

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Of these things.

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So First Chronicles, chapter seventeen, verse six says, in all

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places where I have walked with Israel, with all Israel,

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have I spoken a word with any of the judges

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of Israel whom I commanded to shepherd my people, saying

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why have you not built me a house of cedar.

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This is a conversation that is about a totally different subject,

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but the point being that God in this place is

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speaking about the judges of Israel, whom he says, I

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commanded to shepherd my people. So he calls the judges

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as though they are to shepherd the people. And this

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is a title and a type of work that is

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associated in the New Covenant with the Church and with

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the flock of God, that they're to be shepherd by

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these leaders. Right, So this is something that I think

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is important because what we're going to read here is

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we're going to go into Judges chapter four. We're going

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to read about Deborah. Deborah is a woman and she's

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been raised up by the Lord to help deliver the

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people from their enemies. And she's also somebody that God

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has commanded to shepherd his people. All right, So as

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we go into chapter four and Judges, let's look at

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this story. Did you want to read? Sure? So this

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is Judges chapter four, verse.

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Four, and it says, and bear with me, there are

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some names. Now. Deborah, a prophet, the wife of Lapidoth,

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was leading Israel At that time she held court under

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the Deborah between Rama and Bethel in the hill country

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of Ephraim, and the Israelites went up to her to

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have their dispute decided. She sent for Barak, son of Abinoam,

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from Kadesh in Naphtala, and said to him, the Lord,

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the God of Israel, commands you go. Take with you

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ten thousand men of Naphthala and Zebulum, and lead them

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up to Mount Tabor.

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I think it was mean for me to ask you

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to read this, I totally on purpose.

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In verse seven, I will lead Sirsa, the commander of

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Jabin's army.

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I think it's Csarah Csarah.

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I do I was gonna do that, I told you

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verse seven, I will lead Siserah, the commander of Jabin's army,

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with his chariots and his troops, to the Kishon River,

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and give him into your hands. Barak said to her,

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if you go with me, I will go. But if

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you don't go with me, I won't go. Certainly I

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will go with you, said Deborah, But because of the

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course you are taking, the honor will not be yours.

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For the Lord will deliver Sisarah into the hands of

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a woman. So Deborah went with Barak to Kadesh. There,

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Barack summoned Zebulin and Neftali, and ten thousand men went

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up under his command. Deborah also went up with him.

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Nice, you made it all the way through so many names,

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so lots to point out. Now Deborah a prophet. That's

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the first thing that we see introduced next to her name, right,

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So this is a spokesperson for the Lord. Yes, So

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now Deborah a prophet, and it says that she is

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leading Israel at this at that time, and the Israelites

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went up to her to have their disputes decided. So

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we have somebody who is called a prophet. Right, she's

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a spokesperson for the Lord, but she also has the

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authority and the wisdom to decide disputes between the people.

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This is clearly a leader over these people at this time.

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And I think it's important to note the word prophet here.

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When the New Testament holy Spirit comes and lives inside

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of you, and yes, you have that direct communication with

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the Lord. They didn't have that then, It wasn't after

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the New Covenant, right, so they had to get their

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word through a prophet unless just God sent whatever angel,

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birding bush, whatever you may have to directly communicate with someone.

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They went through a prophet.

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Yes, So she's a spokesperson for the Lord. She decides

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between any kind of disputes that come up for the people.

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But she gets a word right, and the Lord, the

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God of Israel, commands you go take with you ten

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thousand men. She's giving a direct command from the Lord

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to Barack, and included in that command is also ten

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thousand men.

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This is a direct example of God specifically choosing a woman, yes,

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to give commands to men.

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So the Lord then is telling him, I will lead Sisera,

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the commander of Jabin or Jabin's army, with his cheeriots

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and his troops to the Kishan River and give him

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into your hands. And so Barack responds to her, if

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you go with me, I will go. But if you

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don't go with me, I won't go. And he's talking

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to Debra, and so what I've heard is that he

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was a coward because he needed a girl with him

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on the battlefield. It's not in the text at all.

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It's a declaration of trust.

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Yes, if I was getting ready to go into war

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and I didn't have the Holy Spirit to lead and

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guide me in those moments of war, I would probably

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want the person who is the spokesperson for the Lord

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to go with me onto the battlefield.

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It sounds like a pretty good advisor to me. Yes,

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I mean, if I was going to pick anybody, yeah,

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this would be the one.

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So this is actually to me a picture of somebody

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who trusts her. He's looking the wisdom of God to

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be with him in this whole endeavor. This is the

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NIV that we're reading out of right now, and the

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way that they present this verse nine leans in sounding

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like Deborah is saying, well, because you asked me to

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go with you, you're now in trouble. So it says, certainly

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I will go with you, said Deborah. But because of

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the course you were taking, the honor will not be yours,

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for the Lord will deliver Sica into the hands of

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a woman, and so that phrase. But because of the

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course you are taking. Several other translations they say it

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in a different way, like the NASB says she said,

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I will certainly go with you. However, the fame shall

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not be yours on the journey that you are about

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to take, for the Lord will sell Csara into the

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hand of a woman. So that reads a lot different

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than because of the course you are taking. You're not

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going to get the glory for this.

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Yes, this isn't reading as a consequence, it's.

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Reading as a fright that she says, I'm going to

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go with you. However, factual information here, prophet of the

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Lord speaking, the fame shall not be yours on the

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journey that you are about to take, for the Lord

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will sell cicera into the hand of a woman. What

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if it could be understood that way? There has to

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be a second witness in scripture. There's got to be

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something to verify what direction is the right direction to

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go with interpretation, And the Lord consistently puts witnesses in

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scripture to show you the right way to interpret. And

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if you go to Hebrews chapter eleven, you find that

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Brock is listed in the Great Heroes of Faith, and

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so the narrative that he is a coward or that

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he is being punished for not believing God the first

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time and needing Deborah to go with him on the battlefield.

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Now he's not going to get the doesn't actually line

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up with what the New Testament says about him. Because

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if he is listed in the line of the great

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heroes of faith. Then we can say that Barack is

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not a coward, but he is a faithful man of God,

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and he's celebrated in the New Testament for that. This

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is not a situation where God didn't have any good men.

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This is a situation where the person he chose to

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lead that people at that time for the deliverance that

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he wanted to take place was Deborah. And she was

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apparently pretty good at it, because there's forty years of

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peace that follow this whole event. There's actually nothing bad

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spoken about her in scripture. So I think you want

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to continue through the story, though, because the story gets

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pretty eventful.

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There do be some things.

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There do be some things. Let's pick up in verse fourteen.

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All right, and it says then Deborah said to Barack, go,

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this is the day the Lord has given Syrah into

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your hands. Has not the Lord gone ahead of you?

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So Barack went down Mount Tabor with ten thousand men

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following him. At Barock's advance, the Lord routed Sicarah and

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all his chariots and army by the sword, and Sesarah

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got down from the chariot and fled on foot. Barak

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pursued the chariots and army as far as harrow seth

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go yem yep, these are big words. And all Sisera's

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troops fell by the sword. Not a man was left.

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Sisrah meanwhile fled on foot to the tent of Jail,

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the wife of Heber the Keynite, because there was an

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alliance between Javon, king of Hazer, and the family of

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Heber the Keynite.

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This is my favorite part of the story.

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This is when it gets very dateline, like after school

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special Jail went out to meet Sarah and said to him, come,

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my lord, come right in. Don't be afraid. So he

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entered her tent and she covered him with a blanket.

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I'm thirsty, he said, Please give me some water. She

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opened a skin of milk, gave him a drink, and

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covered him up. Stand in the doorway of the tent.

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He told her, if someone comes by and asks you,

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is anyone in there, say no. But j l Heber's wife,

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picked up a tent peg and a hammer and went

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quietly to him. While he lay fast asleep, exhausted, She

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drove the peg, threw his temple into the ground, and he.

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Died into the ground.

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That was with some passion.

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Yes, I'm sure she did it with a very gentle spirit.

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With the direction of the Lord.

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So I love this part of the story. She's taking

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this very submissive roll. But once he gets in the door,

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she's got him tucked into bed with a milk and blankie,

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and then she stands watch over any monsters to make

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sure that he's not gonna be attacked while he sleeps.

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I just make sure my kids and tucking him into

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bed at night, tucking him in with their nice full timmies,

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getting them nice cozy into bed, keeping them safe, making

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sure that none of the monster is gonna get them

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while they sleep. There's just a very strong picture of woman.

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It's the motherly way.

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Yes, there's a it's a lot of estrogen in this story.

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It really is, and she's really good at it. And

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the even the hospitality of the whole story. Not only

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am I going to give you a blanket, You're gonna

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ask for water and I'm gonna one up that. She

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gives him milk, not just water. Really wants them to

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feel secure and safe.

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And then temp peg through the skull into the ground.

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She was like, what war game over? Yeah?

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What war? I like that at the very end of

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the chapter. It ends with this, then the land had

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peace forty years. So that's the end of this story

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of Deborah, is that she brings through following the commands

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of the Lord, through giving the command of the Lord,

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and the people following her leadership in this the land

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has peace for forty years. Do you want me to

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suffer through reading this one?

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Absolutely? It's short term.

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Okay. So we're going to move into another story about

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the woman hold Up, who is a prophetess. Again, we're

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going to see a woman speaking to men in leadership

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and them following what the word of the Lord that

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comes through her is. Hot Second King, Chapter twenty two,

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Verse eight says Hilkiah, the high priest, said to Chaefan,

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the secretary, I have found the Book of the Law

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in the temple of the Lord. He gave it to Schaefin,

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who read it. Okay, so here's a little bit of backstory.

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They had lost this book. So basically, the leadership had

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dealt so poorly with the Lord's things that they had

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actually lost this book. There's a lot of idolatry in

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the country at this time, and King Josiah, who became

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king at eight years old. That's at the beginning of

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the chapter. Says in verse two that he did what

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was right in the eyes of the Lord and followed

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completely the ways of his father David, not turning aside

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to the right of life. He basically purges the land

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of idolatry. But in the midst of his bringing the

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people back to the ways of the Lord, this book

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is found. And I'm going to skip down to verse eleven.

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It says, when the king heard the words of the

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Book of the Law, he tore his robes. He gave

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these orders to Hilkiah the priest Highkam son of Chaffan Akbor,

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the son of Mhiah Chaefan. The secretary basically gave the

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orders to the high priest and a bunch of other dudes,

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and says, go and inquire of the Lord for me

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and for the people and for all Judah about what

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is written in this book that has been found. All right,

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So Hilkaia the priest, and these other dudes, they go

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to the prophet Holda. That's in verse fourteen. You can

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read all about that. She lived in Jerusalem. So here's

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another thing. The prophet Jeremiah was actually during this time. Well,

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he's a dude, he's a man, so why wouldn't they

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go to him. This is definitely not a situation where

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we can say there was no other good men. There's

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a prophet at the time that is a man that

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they could have sought out for this the purpose of

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learning about what the Lord has to say about this

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particular book. But instead they go to holda So in

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verse fifteen, she says to them, this is what the Lord,

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the God of Israel, says. Tell the man who sent

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you to me, this is what the Lord says. So

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I just want to pause and I want to have

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the listeners soak in for a moment. If the Lord

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tells you to say something, you have the authority to

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say it. In this circumstance, she's giving an authoritative word

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of the Lord to not just a man, but to

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some of the highest leadership people in the whole of

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the country. Yes, yes, the king and the high priest

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are receiving this word. So the King's not actually there

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with him, but he has sent his people to get

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the word of the Lord from this woman. This is

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what the Lord says. I'm going to bring disaster on

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this place and its people. Not good news, according to

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everything written in the book the King of Judah has read.

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So then she goes on tell the King of Judah,

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who sends you to inquire of the Lord. This is

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what the Lord, the God of Israel, says concerning the

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words you heard. Because your heart was responsive and you

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humbled yourself before the Lord when you heard what I

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have spoken against this place and its people, that they

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would become a curse and would be laid waste. But

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because you tore your robes and wept in my presence,

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I also have heard you, declares the Lord. He's so merciful.

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Right.

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Therefore, I will gather you to your ancestors, and you

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will be buried in peace. Your eyes will not see

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the disaster I'm going to bring on this place. So

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they took her answer back to the king. This book

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was authenticated by this word, because while they had read it,

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they had found this book, and they're pretty sure they

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know what it is. They are taking it to a

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prophet to see what the Lord has to say about it,

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and in her delivering to them this word, she has

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authenticated that, yes, indeed they did find the Book of

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the Law.

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This is huge, yes, and fun fact, some scholars believe

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that the book of the Law that was found in

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the temple may have been the Book of Deuteronomy. That's

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what they think that was discovered at this time.

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And so if you consider that this is something that

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we have studied for thousands of years, this is a

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